Scripted items (Water and Bottle)

Updated quest: http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/NeoFirst_L.qst (Remove the underscore from the filename if you can't load it)
Updated scripts: http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/NeoFirst.txt

What I've done recently is code up two scripted items.

When you start the quest, notice that the A button is assigned to the Magical Water. Apply it to the objects in the room.

Now, exit the dungeon. You have an Empty Bottle in slot B. Walk onto the dock and scoop up some water.

The Magical Water scripted item uses no FFCs, so it can be used in any screen without hesitation. The splash of water is a Non-gameplay Item (which has a 'Hearts Required' of 255) which is used (and later removed) by the quest's global script to produce the appropriate results.

However! Since the Magical Water can quench torches, a problem of internal consistency emerges. In the case of wall-mounted torches that are flush with the dungeon floor, it is expected (and may at some point be desired) that watering them will also eliminate their flame. So, for all of those kinds of combos, an equal amount of unlit versions may need to be added.

(As for layer 1 torches... let's just keep them above the floor. And as for those braziers in ST's Forest Temple... their flame is visually distinct enough that we can get away with considering them an 'oil fire'.)

Also: using water to remove Zol Fire is currently a post-2.5 technology.
Also also: No, dumping water on stumps isn't going to make the bushes grow again. The water isn't that magical.
Furthermore: If you use cheats to warp to DMap 2 screen 2, you get to see my first scripted Shop. The script used there is my own.

Why not claim that blue fire cannot be extinguished by water? (Or magic water.) Makes it a lot easier.

Also, sure, I'd be glad to draw up extinguished torch tiles for wall torches. Would you have to make a claim that if all torches in the room are extinguished, the room would become (Permanently?) dark though? I mean upon each new visit, the room would remain dark, and if you relit the torch, that dark quality would be removed?

May I also suggest a "Small, Medium, Large, and Magic" bottle type to the script? I.e. the Small bottle would only be able to have one use of the water, while the medium would have three, and the large eight or so, with the magic bottle hosting an unlimited supply of whatever content it had been gifted with? (Naturally, there should only be one of these in the game, and it should be forced to be filled with the magical water.)

This also begs the question of those urns in Twilight Princess filled with potion or lantern oil, such as the ones in that Bird's owner's shop near the Forest Temple. That is why the magic bottle would already be filled with magic water. :p



Additionally, in the (Uber-neat BTW.) shop script, the representation of the arrows should probably use a different Cset. Cset 6, perhaps? 8, maybe. Looks more like 6 at a glance at the DoR set. It also should match the quantity on the table, rather than giving you the poorly drawn (By me. ;-p ) chest of arrows from a quantity of five arrows on the table. Oh, or at least say "30 arrows"

Ooh, nifty. I especially like the effect of water on a water Gel. It really makes me want to come up with something cool >_>

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

Also, sure, I'd be glad to draw up extinguished torch tiles for wall torches. Would you have to make a claim that if all torches in the room are extinguished, the room would become (Permanently?) dark though? I mean upon each new visit, the room would remain dark, and if you relit the torch, that dark quality would be removed?

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Well, upon each new visit the torches would simply be re-lit. It's not like Screen Secrets are at work or anything. And right at this moment scripts can't change the darkness of screens.

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

May I also suggest a "Small, Medium, Large, and Magic" bottle type to the script? I.e. the Small bottle would only be able to have one use of the water, while the medium would have three, and the large eight or so, with the magic bottle hosting an unlimited supply of whatever content it had been gifted with?

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That sounds like a good idea, and certainly a similar but different take on the 4-6 bottles that typical Zelda games provide.

But it would require quite a few more tiles to be made for each variety of bottle contents. Suppose we kept the bottle sizes at 1, 2 and 3. Suppose also that we decided upon just four possible bottle contents. We'd then need:

* Three bottle tiles for each size
* Four size 1 bottle tiles containing 1 unit of each content
* Eight size 2 bottle tiles containing 1 or 2 units of each content
* Twelve size 3 bottle tiles containing 1, 2 or 3 units of each content

Not to mention that many items as well.

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

Additionally, in the (Uber-neat BTW.) shop script, the representation of the arrows should probably use a different Cset. Cset 6, perhaps? 8, maybe. Looks more like 6 at a glance at the DoR set. It also should match the quantity on the table, rather than giving you the poorly drawn (By me. ;-p ) chest of arrows from a quantity of five arrows on the table. Oh, or at least say "30 arrows"

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Ah, that's my mistake.

Oh; the bottle content related 'problem' really isn't nearly as much of a problem as we'd think. It's really more of a copy/paste/overlap solution. This sort of thing is really exactly the kind of thing that I like to do. :shrug:

Can you name all the kinds of content the bottles will have, as well as their appearances?

I don't believe that the individual graphics of each bottle's content will vary that incredibly much from bottle to bottle, save for a tiny modification for the extension of the size of it. I mean it's all mostly liquids, right? You're planning to have a Skulltula or group of insects in there at one point too, right?

Even so, all that needs to be done is to draw one style, then shift that one style around a lot, making backups, working on those copies, sliding them around, cropping them, moving them, overlapping and underlapping, etc. Really not a problem.

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

Can you name all the kinds of content the bottles will have, as well as their appearances?

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On the assumption that, just for now, the largest bottle was thrice larger than the smallest, what sprang to mind first were these five:

Water
- Swing Bottle at Water combo = 3 units.
- Puts out fires
- Changes 'Permanent' Bubbles into 'Recovery' Bubbles
- Changes Water Gels into Water Zols
- Rusts armor (Changes Darknut tiles, reduces their step speed)
Potion
- Up to 3 units can be purchased.
- Restores 50% of Magic and Hearts
Gelly
- Swing Bottle at Gel = 1 unit (P.S: Zols can't be divided by non-weapons)
- Creates a Gel of the appropriate colour*
Sand
- Swing Bottle at Sand combo = 3 units
- Puts out fires
- Disarms statues (Kills "Shooter (Fireball)" enemies)
- Irritates Patra, Digdogger and Gohma in some way
- Changes all Bubbles into Fairies
- Awakens an Owl Statue
- Turns non-water Zols to stone?
Fairy
- Swing Bottle at Fairy = 1 unit
- Creates a Fairy
- But can it revive Link at death? I dunno.


*To make this easier, I'm thinking of removing the Green Zol/Gel and non-Tribble Fire Zol/Gel, leaving three varieties of Gel(ly), and Water Zols/Gels as the only non-Tribble Gel.

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But can it revive Link at death? I dunno.

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A lot of people have been hoping for some sort of way to be able to have a script influence the game in the brief time between Link's health reaching zero and his actual death sequence. Even one or two frames could make a big difference.

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Water (Magic?)
- Rusts armor (Changes Darknut tiles, reduces their step speed)

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The first thing I thought of when I read this, is "This must be the water of time."

Are we talking regular water or magic water?

Following that thought, if you ever picked up "normal" water from a lake or something, could you do that, (Pick up normal water.) if you already had magic water? Would the (Supposedly infinite, for use in this example.) magic water be able to do everything normal water could do and more?

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Sand
- Swing Bottle at Sand combo = 3 units - In which bottle? O.o As in, 3 for small, 9 for the medium, etc...
- Puts out fires - Aye. No problem with that, of course.
- Disarms statues (Kills "Shooter (Fireball)" enemies) - .. A little more believable, I guess...
- Irritates Patra, Digdogger and Gohma in some way - Oh this, I've gotta see.
- Changes all Bubbles into Fairies - ... what ...
- Awakens an Owl Statue - How.
- Turns non-water Zols to stone? - Now we're living in a fantasy world.

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Replies in bold.

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Originally Posted by _L_

- But can it revive Link at death? I dunno.

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Yes, it can.

Make Link's health 8 hearts more than you need, hide 8 of them,
if(Link->HP < 8*16) Link->HP = 0;

That way you can have all fancy stuff happening after Link dies.

Blah... Do the health gauge meters even work that way, with that?

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

Sand
- Swing Bottle at Sand combo = 3 units - In which bottle? O.o As in, 3 for small, 9 for the medium, etc...
- Puts out fires - Aye. No problem with that, of course.
- Disarms statues (Kills "Shooter (Fireball)" enemies) - .. A little more believable, I guess...
- Irritates Patra, Digdogger and Gohma in some way - Oh this, I've gotta see.
- Changes all Bubbles into Fairies - ... what ...
- Awakens an Owl Statue - How.
- Turns non-water Zols to stone? - Now we're living in a fantasy world.

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The disarms statues could be explained by either
A) The sand simply suffocates the flame, or
B) The sand tuns to glass due to extreme heat. Completely unbelievable, but COOL.

The non-water Zols thing could be explained by the added sand messing with their delicate density, immobilizing them. Still, stone?

The other ones I more or less agree with ST. My two cents.

EDIT: Bleh. I can't download the quest in Firefox... time to whip out 'Ol Faithful.

Try copying the URL to the address bar, that worked for me.

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

Blah... Do the health gauge meters even work that way, with that?

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Blah is right. It will appear that Link always has 8 more hearts than normal. I really don't want to sound like I'm posting a suggestion, but a rule "wait x frames at Link->HP 0" would be something really easy to add post 2.5. Personally, I'm more of a fan of the Moon tower dungeon pattern generator myself.

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

The first thing I thought of when I read this, is "This must be the water of time."

Are we talking regular water or magic water?

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High-speed rusting is a bit of a NetHack-ism, I admit. I'm fond of it because I like the notion of water being useful in combat against non-trivial enemies.

(Another idea: Wizzrobe + Water = What happened in The Wizard of Oz. This interaction should perhaps be kept a tad secret.)

My ideas for irritating the bosses are reliant on post-2.5 enemy technology, so we won't see that just yet.

Bubbles->Fairies is, as you know, a property of Magic Powder. I've simply redefined the transformation as a reaction that Bubbles have to powder of any sort. And the same applies to the gelatinous enemies. The Zol->Statue transformation isn't, I feel, too far divorced from the Buzz Blob->Cukeman transformation or the Black Chuchu + Light -> Statue transformation.

Awakening an owl statue is what Mystery Seeds did. Given that the statue can talk, its reaction to common sand is perhaps also a property of the statue. (Also, unlike the foolish modern owls, the ancient stone owls confer purposeful advice).

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

- Now we're living in a fantasy world.

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I can't help but laugh. Isn't that what Hyrule is?

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Originally Posted by _L_

(Another idea: Wizzrobe + Water = What happened in The Wizard of Oz. This interaction should perhaps be kept a tad secret.)

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AH HA HA HA HA HA

Building on that idea: perhaps a big Wizzrobe boss (Carock? Or maybe some sort of fire-based wizard thingy...), and when you use the water on him he goes into the melting routine.

Complete with the "I'M MEEELTIIING WHAT A WORLD" sound clip, for great justice.

And maybe, if you beat him with water instead of the regular way, he leaves behind an item of some sort. Maybe some kind of stone or something, kinda like how lava solidifies when it's cooled...